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TF2: Weapon Tiers in Zombie Survival

TF2: Weapon Tiers in Zombie Survival


[reversed Engineer laughter] Jack5: [silence] Wait just a moment… do you hear that sound? Sounds like it’s time for another Zombie Survival video. [laid back music begins] Greetings everyone, my name is Jack5, and I apologise for the long wait. It has been exactly half a year between the first ZS weapon balances and these new ones that I’m going to cover today, and I know that there’s a vocal minority of people on my channel that only want to see these types of videos. It was unfortunate for them that me and Rushy not only had unrelated features prioritised, but also ran into a couple of dead ends when it came to balancing or even replacing the worst weapons. Hopefully we’ll be able to reduce the wait time for the next weapon balances by around 3 months, but that isn’t a promise. I will say this, however: I have spent more time on these servers than anyone else in history, a full 5 days or so ahead of the next highest person sorted by time on the stats page, and I only just found this out a few days ago. My ZS YouTube content simply understates the amount of time I truly spend playing and working on the gamemode. That should put things in perspective. OK, time to stop wasting time by talking about time. The second Rushy Servers weapon balances update, called “Weapon Balances Mk. II: The Engineer Update”, is Engineer-exclusive. Only four weapon groups have been affected: the Widowmaker, the Pomson 6000, every Engineer melee except the Gunslinger… and the Gunslinger. Don’t worry if that sounds confusing, the changes will make sense of these odd groups. I’ll start by listing off the balances, and then we’ll get into what’s described in the title of this video: tier listing. Yes, I am stooping to that level, let’s begin. You should all know this by now, the Widowmaker has been [stressed] the primary weapon to use since the inception of the meta. While the stock Shotgun is just as viable and is very close in terms of performance to the Widowmaker, there’s always been the suspicion amongst ZS players that the Widowmaker is simply too powerful for its own good. Those suspicions turned out to be true. The day has come where we [stressed] nerf the Widowmaker, a small nerf of 5% slower firing speed, but a nerf nonetheless. I don’t think we’ll need to make the Widowmaker any worse in the future. In its current state I believe it’s on the exact same level as the Shotgun, and people will only continue to think it’s more powerful because of the old meta. The Pomson 6000 is the polar opposite of the Widowmaker. It will always be seen as a horrible weapon because, well, that’s what it is in the base game. In Zombie Survival, however, you should never underestimate the raw power of the Engineers that use this. The first weapon balances brought this laser gun an 80% firing speed boost. These second balances, though, have introduced a 10% reload speed increase [stressed] and a 10% damage increase. I legitimately don’t know what’s going to happen to the Pomson. It could keep getting buffed because its such a strange weapon, or this could be the end of the road for it, or we might have to backtrack if it’s too powerful. I hope it’s the second choice, because these balances take quite a lot of effort to put together. Now, we’re not up to the Gunslinger part just yet, but I need to take a moment to talk about it. Much like the Widowmaker, the Gunslinger has also been a meta weapon for Engineers since the meta was first discovered, but the only reason for it being in the meta is because of its health bonus combined with a complete lack of downsides. It’s the only weapon with this feature, and it prevents any of the other melees from having a chance of standing next to it. That is just unfair, discriminatory even. Unfortunately, weaponism isn’t in our rules, so we did the next best thing. The Gunslinger has not lost its health bonus. Instead, [stressed] every Engineer melee also has it. That’s right, all Engineers will now have a maximum of 150 health, no matter the melee they use. This change will certainly prove to be interesting, especially for free-to-plays and other inexperienced players, no more stock disadvantages. But hold up, where does this leave the Gunslinger? Its third-hit-guaranteed-crit is a rather niche upside, only able to be harnessed by the best aimers on the RED team, another skill gap in the gamemode for no reason. So how do we fix this? Here’s the new critical mechanic that I proposed, which you can try out today. All you have to do is kill two Medics with regular Gunslinger punches. Once you’ve done that, you’ll have a full critical stored on your melee. It doesn’t matter if you miss, the critical will not go away until you punch another Medic, and in most cases, they will die in that one hit. Power like this can get to people’s heads, so here’s my recommendation of how you should use it: First, set up your base with Dispensers, and if necessary, Teleporters. Next, get the two kills necessary to earn the critical. Now hold onto that crit, and only use it in the most desperate of situations. If you feel that this new mechanic is too much for you, the stock Wrench is the next best thing, which has a 10% swing speed increase. It’s like the Jag, [stressed] except its good. Now there’s probably some of you watching right now that don’t trust me all that much, even though I have played Zombie Survival the longest out of anyone and continue to make and update maps specifically tailored for the gamemode. That’s understandable, I do come across as very forward in my videos, so I decided to speak with regular players on the ZS servers, and mix their opinions with mine to create the weapon tier lists that I’m about to show you. There’s four of them, and each is divided into five tiers: S-tier weapons are in the meta and get used the most, A-tier weapons are very useful but not quite powerful enough or vice versa, B-tier weapons are situational, C-tier weapons are bad no matter the situation, and [stressed] never use D-tier weapons ever. Only one weapon made it into D-tier, and I think you know what it is, but let’s start with the Engineer primary tier list. S-tier has the Shotgun and the Widowmaker. Self-explanatory, moving on. In A-tier is the Pomson 6000. I already explained why it’s so good earlier in this video, again, moving on. B-tier consists of the Frontier Justice and the Rescue Ranger. This makes sense, one is a direct alternative to stock and the other is designed to be situational. I’d only consider buffing the Frontier Justice into A-tier in the future, maybe giving it a small firing speed increase. As for C-tier, the Panic Attack sits here, and you should all know how it fell from A-tier to C in that one TF2 update. We can’t fix this weapon because its attributes were altered beyond community repair, so me and Rushy are investigating ways to replace it with an entirely custom weapon. There’s only three secondary weapons, so I’ll list them and their tiers in rapid succession: Pistol, S. Short Circuit, B. Wrangler, D. Yes, the Wrangler is still awful, and like the Panic Attack, we’re investigating ways to replace it. Our current plan is to replace it with a second pistol that performs better at long range, good for defensible spots connected to long stairways or on rooves. As for the Engineer melee tier list, this one was the hardest to come up with, and I had to speak with the community the most about this, but I think I’ve narrowed it down. The Gunslinger is obviously in S-tier, but so is the stock Wrench. Like I said earlier, it’s a way better Jag. The Southern Hospitality and Eureka Effect beg to be in the same tier, but due to the problems that the Eureka Effect causes, me and the community decided on putting the Southern in A-tier and the Eureka Effect in B. Their current tier placement makes sense based on what I’ve said in previous videos, but I need to investigate how to make it [stressed] feel like it makes sense. For example, preventing Eureka Effect Engineers from placing entrance teleporters, and perhaps changing the delay from before the teleporting taunt to after it. And finally, the Jag is in C-tier, but that’s obvious at this point. For the Medic tier list, it gets a little complicated, but seeing that you’ve made it this far into the video, I think you can handle the information I’m about to dump on you. S-tier is easy: Bonesaw and Amputator. The Amputator is the only situational weapon in S-tier, because it has the biggest benefit of all the others, so much so that victory can be harder without it. We may tweak the Medic weapons in the future so the Amputator isn’t as influential. A-tier has the Übersaw. It’s taunt kill is what puts it this high, and its health on enemy hit is more than decent, but since the RED team is often surrounded by buildings, its usefulness is limited. The Vita-Saw is unusual. While we had a clear vision for the weapon, it turns out that it’s very hard to do anything while using it because of the 20 health decrease. This makes it situational, especially since the health decrease is negated if you’re a Juggernaut. I feel that this is unfair, and can potentially restrict Juggernauts to using just the Vita-Saw, so in the future we’ll be increasing the damage bonus against buildings and removing the Juggernaut-exclusive upside. Last is the Solemn Vow, C-tier. It’s down here because of the playstyle it forces Medics into, the same problem the Eureka Effect has. We don’t really have any plans for this weapon. We could replace it, or just buff it, who knows? Either way, that’s everything: all the new weapon balances explained and the four official tier lists revealed, for now. You can likely expect some of this to change in 3 to 6 months time, and when it does, I’ll probably be here, interpreting everything for you and ignoring everybody that opposes me, as I clearly am required to on YouTube. I still get comments on the first weapons video I made for Zombie Survival, and I feel sorry for those people. Back then was a worse time for the gamemode, and it makes me seem like a worse person as a result. Hopefully with each passing update I’ll seem more positive. [laid back music fades into outro music] Probably not though, it’s way too easy to write myself into this tone of voice. And now I shall bring this video to a close. Thank you for watching, feel free to ask me questions if you find me on Rushy Servers, and I’ll see you all next time.

43 thoughts on “TF2: Weapon Tiers in Zombie Survival”

  1. Hi jack5! (GoldenEye007) what if the wragler gave the engi's extra health to a boost of somesort were they can get hit 4 times maximum?

  2. I just don't agree with the Panic Attack being C-Tier because this weapon is basically just the Stock but with slightly shorter range and higher close-up damage.

    Also, the fact this weapon is easier to deploy makes it better to combo up with the Pistol and your melee, so imo, it's A-Tier at worst, and S-Tier at best because the only thing this weapon does worse than Stock is reach, but faster deploy speed and higher damage pool highly compensates it, if it doesn't even top it, especially in a GM where the enemies must kill you with their melees, confirming the usefulness of the stats boost provided by this weapon.

    And, also, for proof that the Panic Attack is good, it's my primary weapon in the ZS servers, and it's so easy to get KS with it.
    But, no, let's just put it in C-Tier because… because.

  3. Beep-Man hopes that all these addons will not make the game unplayable for those with high ping.

    Also Jack5 why are you speaking in third person in the description.

  4. I will be talking about the weapons that are in C tier or below, because they are the ones most need in buffs:
    Panic Attack- I am just going to point to Dizzy's 64 Realm's comment, which explains everything I would. But, if you do feel that it's still C Tier, even after reading his comment, then I would recommend a very minor buff of for each pellet that hits an enemy medic, you get like 1 Metal back. It would have a Widowmaker style effect of getting Metal back, but without the cost of Metal. It wouldn't be nearly as strong as the Widowmaker in earning metal back, but aloud it to compete.
    Wrangler- While I wouldn't be against replacing it, I think all it needs is a rework, like instead of the Sentry getting the Barrier, the Dispenser getting the Barrier, while decreasing the effectiveness of the Barrier. That simple change would make it viable while not broken, with the nerf to the strength of the Barrier.
    Jag- As the first ever strange Melee I ever had, I honestly love the Jag, but the fact that you buffed the Stock wrench to be a straight upgrade to it doesn't bother me as much as you would think, but it does upset me. So, I would consider, if you would only buff it in 1 way, make it so that the Dispenser cost 50% less Metal to build and Upgrade, like the Eureka Effect, so that it would be a viable choice compared to the Stock, since the Dispenser is easily the most important building in the game mode.
    Solemn Vow- There is a change that I could recommend that might be hard to make, but would make it viable: Make it have wall-hacks on at all times, and if Juggernaut, have that and the ability to see enemy health spread to nearby allies. It would be helpful early on, because it would aloud you to see those idiots who decide to be alone, or only 2/3 are together, and take them down, increasing your numbers. Late game, the Juggernaut effect would be useful to making the ally Medics see the enemy health.
    Let me know what you think of these ideas.

  5. I have ideas for fixes:
    Ubersaw:
    It does charge Uber, but instead of Uber being a medigun Uber, it’s a buff banner effect, free crits for nearby medics
    Vita-saw:
    Instead of it’s normal organ feature, it has an eye lander kind of effect with organs instead of heads

  6. The wrangler could give you a shield but you can't attack with your primary but only your melee 3 seconds after switching off of it. Also surrounding engineers would shoot faster and the zombie you aim at takes mini of full crits. It makes your primary fire slower and the shield only block 44% damage(you abviusly have no damage you can deal with it directly though).

  7. I had an idea on how to fix the Wrangler: make it's primary fire mark Medics for death. This would make it more viable, and be able to 1. Help your fellow engies out and 2. Be able to do a Shotgun-Wrangler-Shotgun combo.

  8. I have never played Zombie Survival in my life, so take my suggestion with a grain of salt.

    What if you replaced the Wrangler with a Western revolver? It can act like Spy's revolver, but with faster firing speed. Maybe give it the cloak revolver (can't spell l'etranger to save my life)'s model.

    Or, you can have the Wrangler fire a laser like Technology from The Binding of Isaac. Like the Machina, but MUCH more weaker.

  9. Usually I play zombie survival and in your medic video the Uber saw just gives you 10+ health and you could taunt kill

  10. Idea for wrangler
    [+]
    Mini-sentries can be built
    +5% dmg for minis
    [-]
    -25% hp for minis
    Gunslinger doesn't give +25% for your teammates
    +25% hp for medics

  11. So um too sad that the rushy server is now a coil server whelp i still wanna play it because if you !tp and then !fp your camera will be good well on your right hand its like i forgot and also june :C

  12. Jack the Panic Attack can be good in some situations. For example, the panic attack out performs stock and widow in close range making it ideal for small corridors. Another reason it should be higher is it’s faster firing speed and switch speed make it able to mow medics down in an instant. The bigger spread doesn’t matter if your right up in the medic’s face shooting him for more damage than stock. One last thing is the fixed firing pattern making it more consistent. I hope I changed your point of view on the Panic Attack. P.S. Post highlights of zombie survival please
    From:
    A Fan

  13. I have a possible fix for the Wrangler to become viable (and reworks to several other weapons):
    Wrangler:Remove the original stats.
    +If it is equipped, you can build a sentry (cannot be upgraded).
    -Sentry can only have a maximum of 100 ammo and uses 10 ammo per bullet. (If you have the Gunslinger, instead your mini-sentry can only have 50 maximum ammo, but your mini-sentry can slow enemies and does not need the Wrangler to activate.)
    -Gives only 10 ammo to the sentry per wrench hit instead. (If using the Gunslinger, you instead give 50 ammo to your mini-sentry per hit)
    -Range of sentry decreased by 40%. (20% if using Gunslinger)
    -15% less damage.
    +Has a shield that reduces incoming damage by 33% if the Wrangler is not out. (No shield if you have the Gunslinger)
    +If the Wrangler is out, your sentry is activated, allowing it to shoot. Your sentry can be active even after pulling back the Wrangler for 3 seconds. It will also shoot at whoever you last aimed with the Wrangler. (If you didn't aim at anyone with the Wrangler and only pulled it out, the sentry will target the nearest enemy.)
    Other Weapon Changes:
    Solemn Vow: Remove rework stats.
    +50 max health.
    Regenerate 10 health per second instead of the standard.
    Other healing sources are 50% less effective.
    -20% damage.
    -25% swing speed.
    Receive knock back from bullets.
    Rescue Ranger: Remove the reworked stats.
    Reverse damage falloff.
    Projectile speed +55%.
    +55% accuracy.
    Headshots with this weapon deal mini-crits.
    Projectile is perfectly straight.
    -30% damage.
    Cannot repair buildings.
    -38% ammo on clip.
    Frontier Justice:Remove rework stats.
    +38% ammo on clip. (Basically +2 on your clip)
    +50% building max health.
    You can now "barricade" your buildings, giving them a barricade with 50 max health at the cost of 100 metal. The barricade will always be damaged first (exception for the Vitasaw). You can only have one barricade on each building at a time.
    -50% damage.
    Vitasaw:
    Same as before, but the weapon can now penetrate barricades, dealing half of the damage to the barricade and half to the building.

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